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Post by lwhitman on Jul 15, 2012 7:35:32 GMT -6
"I have a family related to Jean baptiste LaRock. His son married a Grimard daughter."
BoPeep, that's the connection I've been trying to make for years! Do you have more information on that Jean Baptisite LaRock?! Elizabeth Grimard married Joseph LaRock/LaRocque and were my 2G Grandparents. Joseph and Elizabeth's marriage certificate lists Joseph's father as "J.B." (I assuem Jean Baptiste), but I have not been able to make any progress in tracking him down.
I hope you have more information!
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Post by bopeep on Jul 15, 2012 16:55:33 GMT -6
From Dictionaire Historique des Canadiens et des Metis Francois de l'ouest by Morice. "Joseph Rolette son of Jean-Baptiste and Angelique Lortie, born at Quebec September 23 1781 educated at Quebec. October 1803 began as merchant at Montreal, thence to Detroit, Sandwich and finally to Prairie du Chein. Married May 1807 Marguerite Dubois; a ward of Julien Dubuque." sorry this book by Tasse' in French is somewhere else. I copied it to some board...I'll find it. published late 1800's. From the Palimpset Vol 3 1922 Page 207 speaking of Rolette. "He married the daughter of Antoine Dubois, a friend of Julien Dubuque, by whom it is reported the young girl was raised after her father had been killed by the Indians"
From Jean Joseph Rolette a biography written by Peter Scanlan, and given in lectures. Found in the Peter Scanlan papers stored at Plattville. Page 1 "When Pike visited PdC he found Rolette was present and at a dinner given to Pike he was one of the guests. Some of the men were inclined to find fault with Rolette's methods of trade, especially giving Indiand liquor which was allowed under the British but forbidden by the Americans. Rolette must have decided to make his home here, for in 1807 he married Margaret Dubois, the daughter of Antoine Dubois and Wabasha's sister. The marriage took place in the presence of a magistrate and two witnesses but no record was kept. Her father had been killed by the Indians several years before and her brother Antoine during the war of 1812. She was only 14 when she married Rolette. She had been raised by Julien Dubuque. Three children were born of this marriage." Page 2 "The mother of Margaret Dubois after her father's death married Pierre Urtebise an old trader at PdC and to this marriage was born Pierre who married Emily LeDuc and Virginia who married John Findley in 1817." This is from chapter 10. also from Vol IX pp296 and 297
"While the British were at Prairie du Chien, Antoine Dubois and one Champignier were sent several miles into the woods, to procure a supply of meat for the garrison, as related by Capt. Anderson. They were both shot by a treacherous Sioux, at one discharge, killing Champignier outright and mortally wounding Dubois. The latter made a trail of gun-powder, some five feet from the dead body of his companion, completely encompassing it, well knowing it would prove a protection against wolves; and then made his way, as best he could, to Prairie du Chien. This murderous attack on the two unsuspecting Frenchmen occurred in Giard's Coulee, some five or six miles west of the Mississippi. When a party repaired to the spot from Prairie du Chien, some thirty persons in all, including several youths not over fourteen years of age, they found Champigniers's body untouched by the wolves, thought the tracks of these animals were plenty outside of the powder lines, but none within.
Two Sioux chiefs were apprehended, and confined in the fort as hostages until the culprit should be found; he was soon brought in, when the chiefs were released. The condemned Sioux was shot by six men, selected for the purpose, all firing a platoon together, just a little south of Dousman's mound, at the streets where Mr. Dousman commenced a pond. Mr. Brisbois witnessed this execution, as did indeed the whole garrison, the inhabitants of the village, and such Indians as were present. The doomed Sioux had no sympathizers. The wounded man, Dubois, lived some three days. Rolette's first wife was a sister to this unfortunate man; and, it may be added, Dubois's wife was a sister of the famous Sioux chief, Wau-pa-sha. LaPointe, as already stated, had also married a sister of this noted warrior"
From Vol IX, pp 200-201 Anderson's Narrative: about the later part of December 1814
"The contractor's (Rolette) meat stores were low, and he requested me to spare him two of my interpreters to go about 15 or 20 miles to a Sioux camp for venison....One of the interpreters was a Canadian, the other a half-breed....he quietly took their gun and shot them both. The Canadian, who was next to him, was instantly killed; and one of the balls, passing through him, entered the half-breed just about the naval. "
(Wow, Anderson didn't appear to notice the loss of his interpreters. Not even calling the men by name when he describes their deaths. However he did make it quite clear that he knew both men killed, and one was a Canadian and the one who survived to reach the fort was the half-breed, Antoine Dubois.)
Vol III, Grignons recollections p 279
" A couple of frenchmen, named Dubois and Chaupanie, the former a half-breed Sioux, and brother-in-law of Capt Rolette, were sent to a sioux camp to optain some venison for Rolette.....took the only gun and shot them both a one discharge, killing Chaupanie on the spot, and mortally wounding the other.....Dubois, though distant a day's journy, reached Prairie du Chein, and died shortly after"
We have here three men contemporary to the event. With similar versions. Two agree that Margaret Dubois, first wife and a half- breed Sioux, neice of Chief Wapasha II, was a sister to Antoine Dubois, who was killed. Two agree Antoine Dubois' companion was not related to him. Antoine Dubois' wife was a sister to Chief Wapasha. This is mentioned by Brisbois, who knew the Wapasha families. The accounts do not mention how old Antoine was, or which Chief was brother to his widow.
Page 220 from Anderson's journal
"A young lad of this place, by the name of Antoine Du Bois, volunteered his service, and embarked with the Sioux interpreter. I gave the Fieulle a few articles he was in want of. Fifty Sioux of the Feuille band, with 45 renards, left this place at two o'clock singing the war song;"
(To me a "lad" as opposed to a young man, would limit the age to less than a majority. I will limit his age to twenty, however, there is a possibility he was over 20. But using the term lad would indicate younger to me.)
Vol XIII, page 36 Bulger papers,
In a letter...."one of the men lived about 3 hours, the other, who was Mr Rolette's broth-in-law, continued to reach this place after walking about 24 miles."
"La Feuille has an old grudge against them. They killed his brother, and one of the young men lately murdered was his nephew, WHOSE FATHER WAS ALSO KILLED BY THE SAME BAND."
We already know that Antoine was a young "lad", here called the nephew of Chief Wapasha. The father of Antoine Dubois is said to have been killed by the same band. It is clear from the wording that the father was not killed in this incident In his book "The Chiefs Wapahasha, Mark Diedrich tries to explain the relationship of Antoine Dubois.
page 54 " The trouble became more serious on December 8 when Rolette disregarded the Chief's wishes and sent Wapahasha's brother in law, Antoine Dubois and Dubois' son, to the Wahpe-kutes to trade for buffalo meat. The two men met their deaths at the hands of French Crow's pro-american nephew."
page 54 "(Wapahasha) ...has an old grudge against them; they killed his brother, and one of the young men lately murdered was his nephew, whose father was also killed by the same band."
page 30 "His sisters include Mrs Antoine Dubois." said of Wapasha II.
This disagrees with the other historical first person accounts. Antoine was a half-breed Sioux and the brother of Rolette's wife Margaret Dubois. The tribal historians are following Mr Diedrich's story. To that extent, they even suggest Margaret Dubois was first married to Antoine Dubois, and later married Rolette using the Dubois name. This a obviously disproved by these accounts, written by people who were there.
Margaret Dubois had a child by Rolette in 1811. She was formally married to Rolette in 1817. In 1810, Antoine Dubois was perhaps 15 years of age.
The story given by Brisbois, in the history of Prairie du Chein comes closest. He was an eye-witness, and certainly would have know if Antoine Dubois had a son Champaigne. Brisbois story would then have included the information that they were father and son. Also, he knew the relationship of Margaret Dubois and Antoine Dubois. The Brisbois report included the information that Dubois was a brother to Margaret Dubois This account of the death of Antoine Dubois includes the note that Dubois wife was a sister of Chief Wapasha. Could the nephew of Wapasha have married his mother's sister? Doubtful. Would a young lad have married the sister of an important Chief? Doubtful. So to what can we attribute the note that Dubois wife was a sister of Wapasha II? The memoires of Brisbois were "Related to Lymon Draper, who noted them down and annotated them."
Is this the problem? Likely, Brisbois knew Antoine Dubois, and his relationship to Chief Wapasha, and Rolette. Draper, did not. In putting the fact that Dubois married a sister of Wapasha II next to the story of Antoine, I believe Draper led us to believe that Antoine had married the daughter of Chief Wapasha I, when it was Antoine's father who had married her.
I'll match Tasse' and Morice,' and Scanlan's Antoine to your Jean Baptiste Dubois reported by Rentmeesters and copied by everyone else. Bopeep
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Post by bopeep on Jul 15, 2012 17:46:44 GMT -6
Hi cousin L Whitman, I was just trying to correct a long standing mistake...and several pages later...here we are with the meat of the question. I'm working with another cousin related to this couple. Elizabeth Gremore married Joseph LaRocque 1856, He was born 1838 and died 1923. three children, Mary, Peter and Joseph.
Joseph LaRocque was the son of Jean Baptiste LaRocque 1805
Who was the son of Joseph LaRocke 1746 to 1815 and an unknown Sissiton sioux woman who was the son of Augustine and Catherine Cadieu
My other cousin is descended from Mary who married Michael Martell. found in Mary martell's book. Bopeep
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Post by lwhitman on Jul 16, 2012 11:37:52 GMT -6
Hi Cousin Bopeep, :-)
Can you give me your sources for the LaRocque lineage you provided? The 1805 Jean Baptiste has been my best bet for Joseph Sr.'s father, but I haven't been able to find evidence of that.
The Joseph LaRocque who married Elizabeth Gremore was born on May 2, 1827 in Dubuque, Iowa. The marriage certificate for those two lists Joseph's father as "J.B." and his mother as "Elizabeth". That "Elizabeth" name on the marriage certificate may be incorrect or it may be a problem if we want to connect the 1805 Jean Baptiste to Mary, Peter and Joseph.
Lori
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 16, 2012 13:08:25 GMT -6
Here's something that agrees that Jean Baptiste Dubois was not drowned:
From Ste-Anne church register: "December 13, 1791, about seven o'clock in the morning, Jean Louis Carignan, Esquire, superintendent of inland navigation at Michilimackinac and notary Public of the said Post, was drowned in Lake Michigan while going to fish with his hired man, Jean Bte Dubois, who was saved as well as several persons who were unable to give him assistance"
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 16, 2012 21:47:52 GMT -6
I suspect there must be some kind of long-standing mix-up regarding the marital history of the native mother of Marguerite, first wife of Jean Joseph Rolette. One could ask the question "Why would a daughter of Wabasha I have become a slave of Charles Langlade?" I don't think it ever happened. To begin with, some of the information about the mother of Marguerite is centered around Michilimackinac, where the Dakota nation did not live. But Charles Michel de Langlade did [he was born there] and so did his relative, Charles Gautier. Also Joseph Rolette. All these men were on the side of the British in the War of 1812 and Langlade and Rolette, at least, participated in the British capture of Mackinac Island in the Siege of Fort Mackinac or Michilimackinac. www.mightymac.org/michilimackinac.htmWabasha I was a great fighter for the British. Also in Michilimackinac were the parents of Jean Baptiste Dubois, according to the local records of the Parish of St. Anne's of the Lakes. I think it is very possible that Jean Baptiste did marry or at least cohabit witha slave of de Langlade at Michilimackinac--but that native woman was no daughter of a chief of the Dakota or even a Dakota at all. Now we go to Prairie du Chien. I don't think Emily Rolette Hooe would have perjured herself just to get some half-breed scrip as a result of the Treaty of 1830 by claiming her mother to have been a Mdewakanton and a cousin of Wabasha III. On balance, it seems there was another man who was the father of Marguerite Rolette--and he was probably not Charles Gautier de Verville, who has nothing to do with the Dakota country and Prairie du Chien until later [that I can recall]. According to Augustin Grignon's "Recollections": Gautier De Verville and his wife went to Prairie du Chien, about 1798, to live with Michael Brisbois; and De Verville died there about 1803, at about the age of sixty-five, his widow survived him several years. The original name of Marguerite Rolette *was* probably really Dubois and if her mother later married someone named Hurtebise that is understandable, as Hurtebise was a trader name connected to Prairie du Chien. But Charles Gautier may have had a daughter named Catherine by one of his various native women--somewhere. Where does it state that Marguerite Rolette and Catherine Brunet were sisters? There are some details of the incident in "History of Crawford and Richland Counties", 1884: "While the British held Prairie du Chien, Antoine Dubois and one Champignier were sent several miles into the woods, to procure a supply of meat for the garrison, as related by Capt. Anderson. They were both shot by a treacherous Sioux, at one discharge, killing Champignier outright and mortally wounding Dubois. The latter made a trail of gun-powder, some five feet from the dead body of his companion, completely encompassing it, well knowing it would prove a protection against wolves; and then made his way, as best he could, to Prairie du Chien. This murderous attack on the two unsuspecting Frenchmen occurred in Giard's Coulee, some five or six miles west of the Mississippi. When a party repaired to the spot from Prairie du Chien, some thirty persons in all, including several youths not over fourteen years of age, they found Champigniers's body untouched by the wolves, thought the tracks of these animals were plenty outside of the powder lines, but none within. Two Sioux chiefs were apprehended, and confined in the fort as hostages until the culprit should be found; he was soon brought in, when the chiefs were released. The condemned Sioux was shot by six men, selected for the purpose, all firing a platoon together, just a little south of Dousman's mound, at the streets where Mr. Dousman commenced a pond. Mr. Brisbois witnessed this execution, as did indeed the whole garrison, the inhabitants of the village, and such Indians as were present. The doomed Sioux had no sympathizers. The wounded man, Dubois, lived some three days. Rolette's first wife was a sister to this unfortunate man; and, it may be added, Dubois's wife was a sister of the famous Sioux chief, Wau-pa-sha. LaPointe, as already stated, had also married a sister of this noted warrior." So now Antoine Dubois had a wife who was a sister of Wabasha and also a sister of the wife of Pierre LaPointe!
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 17, 2012 10:57:25 GMT -6
Hi, lwhitman--if you can see your way to posting any anecdotes you may have about your LaRocque family, I think that would add a lot to the lore of Prairie du Chien. On another board, you mentioned that Joseph Larocque, Jr. had lost some of his fingers in an accident. I had found out that he had been born in the old Astor Fur Company building, still standing on St. Feriole Island and on the national historic register. Anything else of interest you can relate?
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 22, 2012 7:38:58 GMT -6
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 22, 2012 7:53:10 GMT -6
There is only one listing in Wisconsin Creoles: The LA ROCK Family. This name is also spelled LA ROCQUE and LA ROCHE. Quoting from the book: There were La Rocques trading on the Mississippi and on Lake Pepin by 1780. Basil La Rock (b. circa 1765) married Catherine Brunette ()b. circa 1780) daughter of Jean Baptiste Brunette and started a family at Green Bay. He and his son Francois, who owned a Prairie du Chien farm at that time, were operating farms for John Lawe in 1818. Shortly after that, Pascal La Roche arrived with his 75 year old grandfather, Sons Pierre and Amable and his two daughters. The Pascal children were: #1. Angela (b. cirtca 1795) married as her first husband, Francois Lavigne; She married her second husband, Jean Baptiste Lemiry in 1828 and had two children: Joseph and Lewis. Angela married her third husband, Francois Gagnon in 1834. #2, Francois (b. circa 1798) married Mary Provenca and had a daughter; Charlotte married Joseph Champeau. #3, Genevieve married Francois Dagenait. #4. Charlotte married Moses Hardwick. #5. Rosalie married Michel Harteau in 1834. #6. Therese married Jesse Brunette. #7. Mary married as her first husband Louis Fizette Jr. in 1836, then she married Peter Allis. #8. Marie married Nicolas Vieau. #9. Ursula married Michel Douville. #10. Peter married Mary Ann La Frambois. #11. Amable #12. Sophie ************************************************** ** Pascal La Rock married Mary Carbonneau in Green Bay in 1824. They had a son Peter. **************************************************** A Mary La Roche drew payment as a mixed blood Menominee in 1849. **************************************************** The Basil La Rock family bought lot #25 on the East side of the Fox River, which is now the North part of East De Pere
Church records of St. Gabriel's include an "A. B. LaRocque" whose first name may have amounted to "Adel". A.B. LaRocque was town marshal of Prairie du Chien in 1875.
(Marriage) Grimard-Courtois. — May 9, 1829, all for- malities, &c., &c., we, the undersigned priest, gave the nuptial blessing to Pierre Grimard, native of the parish of St. Anne, diocese of Montreal, Can- ada, resident of this parish five years, and Elisa- beth Courtois, native and resident of this parish, in presence of Franqois Chenever, . . . Rivard, and several others. "
The Courtois family were among the earliest settlers of PdC. I also wonder if the name "Elizabeth", given on the marriage certificate of Joseph Larocque, Sr. and Elizabeth Grimard is correct for Joseph's own mother. Perhaps it is an error--and the name of the mother of the bride. Seems to me to be a lot of Elizabeths!
In St. Gabriel's graveyard: "Menard,Pascal Nov;10,1845---buried Aug;26,1847,son of Pascal & Mary Laroque" (unknown if stone)
Mary or Marie Larocque was the daughter of the widow Josette Larocque, father unknown to me. [Josette later married Basile Gagne/Gagnier and had more children by him].
Hansen "Crawford County Wisconsin Marriages 1816-1848"?
Basil married first to Ellen GRIGNON May 25, 1828 --proof at Register of Deeds, P.D.C., Wis. Their children we have nothing on. Basil GAGNIER's second marriage was to Mrs. Josephine (Josetta) LaROQUE. Basil died October 15, 1878 , and his wife Josetta almost two weeks later on October 29, 1878--proof for this was found in the early records at St. Gabriel's in Prairie du Chien, Wis. Both were buried in the cemetery there. To this Basil and Josetta three children were born: Pascal, Helen and Norbert. Pascal was accidentlly shot and killed at the age of 15 years., etc, etc....."
Also [and all this is from Mary Martell]:
"Baptismal records as follows: Norbert GAGNIER, son of Bazel (Basil) GAGNIER and Marie LAROCK, born March 8, 1843, and was baptized March 17, 1843, sponsors were Pascal MENARD and Marie LAROCK. "
I think someone meant to write that Norbert was the son of Josette Larock and that her daughter, Marie, from a previous marriage, was the godmother. If Norbert was born in 1843, it was probably not too long after the marriage of his parents. However, it looks like Josette already had children that were grown or in their teens.
"Marriage record: Norbert GAGNIER, son of Basil GAGNIER and Josetta LaROCK and Marie Eloise, daughter of Anthony VALEE and Mary MORIN, were married February 4, 1862, witnessed by Anthony VALEE and Joseph BOISVERT.."
" Here are the children of Mary Ann LaBUCHE-DUCHOUQUETTE-GAGNIER and Charles MENARD: Charles, Jr., married Frances HERBERT, 1828; Louis married Angelic COURVILLE; Pascel married Marie LaROQUE (half sister of Norbert GAGNIER)"
"Norbert GAGNIER had half brothers and sisters, namely Joe, Andrew, Madaline and Marie, they were the children of Mrs. Josette LaROQUE before she married Basil GAGNIER. Madaline LaROQUE married an ABARE (UBER) and lived at Red River of the North and Minnesota. Marie or Mary LaROQUE married Pascal (Peter) MENARD, he died January 26, 1882."
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Post by lwhitman on Jul 29, 2012 16:47:14 GMT -6
SO many LaRocques! I don't know who Jaque is. I'll try soon to write up a few of the more personal things I know about my LaRocques.
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Post by Rivergal on Aug 8, 2012 9:06:41 GMT -6
Found among the description of the papers of Henry H. Sibley:
"Fur trader's license, issued to Joseph Rock, to trade at Little Rock [Petit Roche], Minnesota River, with the Sisseton and Yankton bands. Signed by Lawrence Taliaferro, September 30, 1835."
Which Joseph Rocque was this? He evidently didn't last long there as...from "The Origins of the Roc/Rock Family of Prairie du Chien and Wabasha" Frontier Genealogy Among The Voyageurs, THE GENEALOGIST Spring 1997 Volume 11 No. 1 by James L. Hansen:
"Joseph Rocque, b. ca. 1785, bp. (as Augustin Joseph) 19 May 1798, age 13, at St. Charles Mo., (Parish records of St. Charles, MO) and died in the fall of 1835 at his trading post at Little Rock on the Minnesota River. (Sibley's papers). Based on the birthdates of his children he was probably married twice, most likely to Indian or mixed-blood women, but not of Sioux blood. (Mixed-blood script affidavit's 1855)"
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Post by Rivergal on Aug 9, 2012 22:32:58 GMT -6
Confirmed by Henry H. Sibley that Augustin Roque [formerly "Larocque"] who for awhile was the only white man living between Prairie du Chien and St. Peter's [Mendota, MN] around Lake Pepin did not speak English. Sibley stayed at his house briefly in 1834 on his was to St. Peter's. This is from "Reminiscences of the Early Days of Minnesota" archive.org/stream/reminiscencesea00socigoog/reminiscencesea00socigoog_djvu.txt"The old man Rocque, mentioned as residing near Lake Pepin, afforded another instance of the inconvenience of not being able to speak English. He knew one compound word only, and that was roast beef, which he called " Ros-bif." He accompanied a Dakota delegation to Washington City on one occasion, and when asked at the public houses what be would be helped to, he could only say Ros-Bif! So that the unhappy old gentleman, although longing for a chance at the many good things he would have preferred, performed the round trip on " Ros-bif."
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Post by Rivergal on Aug 12, 2012 13:51:43 GMT -6
Coming back to the discussion of the Dubois family, I came upon something interesting in the second volume of Feathersonhaugh's "A canoe voyage up the Minnay Sotor". Featherstonhaugh, coming back down from his trip to St. Peter's, stayed at the home of Joseph Rolette at Prairie du Chien. As he was about to leave a "M[onsieur Dubois" and his niece, a young married woman of 18, whom Featherstonhaugh judged to have Indian blood in her, wanted to know if they could ride in his canoe to Dubuque. The Englishman didn't want to take them, as he didn't think there was enough room, but they insisted. This was on October 29, 1835 and the weather had already turned bitter cold. Featherstonhaugh also had with him a young lad, the son of the commanding officer of Fort Snelling, Major Bliss, whom he was transporting in these chilly circumstances to attend a school somewhere, perhaps at St. Louis. I wish Featherstonhaugh had bothered to recall the name of the niece of Dubois, whom he referred to as an "old voyageur" but as she "had no pretensions to beauty" he did not take as much interest in her as he did a beautiful young blonde half-breed who lived with Chaska's band of the Dakota, probably Madeleine Robinson, later Mrs. Francois "Joseph" Rocque, son of trader Augustin.
Now this happened long after the brother of Marguerite Dubois, first wife of Rolette, was killed by the Indians. Who was this other Dubois, the old gentleman, and who was the niece?
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Post by Rivergal on Feb 1, 2013 22:34:15 GMT -6
This is a very good source for the LaRocques of Green Bay, WI, beginning with Joseph Couillaud LaRocque and spouse, Catherine Brunet. Many, many descendants: tinyurl.com/8z3d8srPlus, this is what Wikipedia has to say about the LaRocques: "There are four main branches of the Larocque surname in North America: Philibert Couillaud dit Roquebrune (1641–1700), from the diocese of Nevers, France, first appeared as a member of the Carignan-Salières Regiment when they landed in Quebec in 1665. He was sent primarily to defend New France from the Iroquois, and eventually settled down in Contrecoeur, Quebec. He married Catherine De La Porte in 1675 at Contrecoeur, having 11 children in all. Members of this branch often have the surnames Larocque, Larock, Rock, Roquebrune, Rocquebrune, Rockbrune or Couillaud. Guillaume Larocque, from the diocese of Albi, France, married Jeanne Boivin in Montréal, Quebec in 1717. Antoine Larocque, writer for King Louis XIV, was from Trie, France. He married Catherine Guillemot in 1752. Francois Larocque, from France, married Marguerite Caplan about 1725. He is the primary ancestor of Atlantic Canadian Larocque families." This one may be the best Larocque website of them all: freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~louislarocque/startbor.htm
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Post by Rivergal on Mar 16, 2013 11:55:32 GMT -6
Here is the most famous LaRocque of them all--silent film actor, Rod LaRocque [also of the Larocquebrune family] born in Chicago. img855.imageshack.us/img855/370/rlarocque.jpg [/img] There was also a silent film star born in either Prairie du Chien or neighboring Eastman, Barbara Bedford, born Violet Rose.
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