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Post by lwhitman on Jul 9, 2012 12:34:22 GMT -6
I'm still trying to make connections back into the late 1700's for LaRocque's in Prairie du Chien. Look at this: "Wabasha III / "Red-Leaf" / Lafeuille / Ouabachas: (abt.1700/20 - ?) He was the son of Wabasha II, born in the Cass Lake area. His children were: Wabasha IV (b.abt.1773/76), Pelagia (b.abt.1779/81)(m.Augustin Ange dit St.Onge-Lefeure), Daughter (b.abt.1776)(m.Pierre Lapointe), Marpiyarotowin or "Grey Cloud" (d.1844)(m.James Aird, abt.1783), Daughter (b.abt.1775)(m.Joseph Larocque) & Margaret (m.1st.Antoine Dubois & m.2nd.Joseph Rolette)." - users.usinternet.com/dfnels/wabasha-zip.htm I have seen this before, but not really given it much thought or consideration. But I just noticed the other names in with Joseph Larocque: Lapointe, Aird, Dubois and Rolette. They all became well-known early settlers and fur traders in Prairie du Chien. Interesting connection, don't you think? Could they have moved southward together in the late 1700's?
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 9, 2012 15:15:39 GMT -6
I'm still trying to make connections back into the late 1700's for LaRocque's in Prairie du Chien. Look at this: "Wabasha III / "Red-Leaf" / Lafeuille / Ouabachas: (abt.1700/20 - ?) He was the son of Wabasha II, born in the Cass Lake area. His children were: Wabasha IV (b.abt.1773/76), Pelagia (b.abt.1779/81)(m.Augustin Ange dit St.Onge-Lefeure), Daughter (b.abt.1776)(m.Pierre Lapointe), Marpiyarotowin or "Grey Cloud" (d.1844)(m.James Aird, abt.1783), Daughter (b.abt.1775)(m.Joseph Larocque) & Margaret (m.1st.Antoine Dubois & m.2nd.Joseph Rolette)." - users.usinternet.com/dfnels/wabasha-zip.htm I have seen this before, but not really given it much thought or consideration. But I just noticed the other names in with Joseph Larocque: Lapointe, Aird, Dubois and Rolette. They all became well-known early settlers and fur traders in Prairie du Chien. Interesting connection, don't you think? Could they have moved southward together in the late 1700's? Hi, lwhitman, welcome to the board! As I recall, the obituary of your ancestor, named Joseph LaRocque, indicated his family did not come to Prairie du Chien until around 1828. It may be that the Joseph LaRocque, who accompanied his father-in-law, Wabasha "Red Leaf", in the summer of 1780 on a attack on St.Louis for the British is your ancestor going farther back, somehow, but that is what we have never been able to establish so far. The Joe LaRocque we are accustomed to calling "Joe LaRocque, SR" in your family--and who is the earliest Joe you know for sure is your ancestor was born around 1820. I forget his exact year of birth, but we can calculate that, I think. What I do know is this: In 1816, a group of men and women petitioned Congress for legal title to their lands in and around PdC. You can see their names in the thread "Early Settlers of Prairie du Chien" here. The only one on the list of petitioners with a name anything like LaRocque is Augustin Rock. I think you know who he was. I don't know for sure, but I think he changed his name from LaRocque to Rock/Rocque so as not to be associated with his father, Joseph LaRocque, the British sympathizer, on that petition. The British, as everyone knows, lost out in America. Whatever happened there, I don't think Augustin got the title to any land from Congress and that's how he ended up living in Wabasha instead of PdC. I am certainly interested in the history of your family and its genealogy. Oh--and I checked the burial record for Joe Sr and it indicates he was 96 when he died in 1923. That makes him born in 1827 or May 2, 1826, the date in the obituary, which is close enough for me. I think you recall the problems I found with that obit and that Joseph LaRocque, son-in-law of Wabasha Red Leaf, described therein, does not seem to have lived long enough to sire Joe. Sr.
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Post by bopeep on Jul 10, 2012 6:30:59 GMT -6
Good morning, I feel like I joined this in the middle. Which Joe Sr are we talking about? Was that the obit on another board? On the subject of Chief Wapasha. I need to correct the reference to Margaret Dubois, who married Rolette. She was the daughter of Antoine Dubois Sr, and the sister of Antoine Dubois killed in 1814. She married Rolette in 1807 and died of consumption about 1817.
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 10, 2012 8:10:03 GMT -6
Yes, another conversation. This site freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wapasha/wapa1cunksi.html claims that Margaret was the daughter of a man named Gauthier. But the affidavit of her daughter, Emily Rolette Hooe, calls her "Margaret Dubois" and swore, in 1855, that Margaret had been the cousin of the present chief Wabasha, which would have had to have been Wabasha III in 1855. I will check on the Dubois family. Later: I checked in "Wisconsin Creoles", which says: pg 239-240 "Dubois Family The mother of this family was a sister of the Sioux Indian Chief WauPa Sha [Wahpasha or Wapasha] and was reported to be a slave of Charles de Langlade. She had two daughters by Charles GAUTIER de Verville' Margerite married Joseph Rolette; and Catherine, who married Jean Baptiste Brunette. She later married Jean Baptiste Dubois, son of Pierre Ignace Dubois and Therese Campion. Jean Baptiste drowned in Lake Michigan in 1791 with his bourgeois (employer) Jean Louis Carignon." Later on, Jean Joseph Rolette [commonly known as Joe Rolette, Sr.] married a young girl, who was from the Gautier de Verville line, as well. Her name was Genevieve/Jane Fisher. In due course this Jane married Hercules Dousman at Prairie du Chien. I am interested in your source that states Margaret/Marguerite Rolette was the daughter of Dubois.
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 10, 2012 10:16:11 GMT -6
Bopeep, I think it's possible that Marguerite went by the name of her stepfather, Dubois. Do you think that's likely? She seems to have been close in age to her sister, Catherine, whose descendants claim Charles Gautier as their ancestor.
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 11, 2012 8:19:41 GMT -6
Since this thread has had so many views already, I should give the link to what Mary Martell has to say about the LaRocques of Prairie du Chien freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~louislarocque/metis.htmThe best candidate for the father of lwhitman's ancestor, Joseph LaRocque, Sr., born in 1826, is Jean Baptiste LaRocque, born in 1805, son of a Frenchman from Canada, also named Joseph LaRocque, [born in the 18th Century]who served with the British as an interpreter and was purportedly married to a daughter of Wabasha named LaBleu. Mary Martell claimed that the father of Joseph LaRocque, Sr., was named Jean Baptiste but did not elaborate. So far our member, lwhitman, has not been able to confirm this--but not for want of trying! Joseph LaRocque, the interpreter, had another son, who called himself Augustin Rocque and who was involved in the fur trade. The family of Augustin Rocque settled at Wabasha, MN.
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 11, 2012 8:55:12 GMT -6
Here is the roster of the volunteers from Prairie du Chien, who organized themselves during the Winnebago War of 1827. Thomas McNair, a resident of the village, was chosen Captain, as he had some military experience, it was said. As one can see, there is a "Baptiste Rock" among the volunteers, who could very well be the Jean Baptiste LaRocque born in 1805 and who would have been a grown man by then. I have corrected some of the spellings of the names. The men did not write their own. Most were illiterate.
Thomas McNair Capt. Joseph Brisbois Jean Brunait [Brunet] Strange Powers Andre Basin Tunis Bell Julien Lauvier [LaRiviere] Francis Chenevert Peter Barette Isaac Harrison Jean Pion Asselin Augustin Antaya Christortome M B W Brisbois Augt Buisson Paul Bourdignon Lavoine Baith Luriomt Baith Charles Barrun Louis Cardinal Oliver Chener [Cherrier?] Etienne Dyonne Joseph Dugui Joseph Deschampt Francis Descouquet Laurent Delonmier Jacob Ells George Fisher Charles Gilbert Joseph Gardossie Pierre Grimard Basil Gagnier Anable Grignon Paul Bussuame Claude Gagnier Larivier Michel Baptiste Larivier Joachim Lapointe Charles Lapointe jr Francis Lapointe Pierre Linglois Pierre Legris Jean Bape Loyer Jean Lemerey Pierre Lessarde Joseph Lameronde Joseph Marcier Felix Marcier Charles Menard [Jr. or middle initial “J.”] Edward Nockle Howard Newman Edward Pizanne Joseph Potwin Francis Provost Joseph Ranger Antoine Reed Joseph Robinette Baptiste Rock Antoine Robert Charles St. Antoine Baptiste? St. Martin [page torn] William Shaw Michel Saidlow Joseph Thomas Julien Villiote Jean Bpt. Wemette [Ouilmette?] Jean Bpt. Willette [Ouillette]
I certify that this Muster Roll exhibits the true slate of Thomas McNairs’s company of the Michigan Militia for the period herein mentioned, and that the remarks set opposite the names of the men are accurate and just. Given at Prairie du Chien in the Territory of Michigan this thirty first Day of July 1827.
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Post by bopeep on Jul 11, 2012 12:34:42 GMT -6
Regarding Joseph Rolette, There is a biography of him in Dictionary Historique des Canadiens et des Metis Francois de L'ouest. by Morice. It appears that the stories of Rolette may be mixed, but Morice states that Margaret Gauthier Dubois was the ward of Dubuque after Antoine Dubois was killed by the Indians, and that she was married in 1807 and a formal marriege was repeated before her death in 1817. Her mother remarried at PdC to Hurtubise and had two more children before 1803. I am still trying to find the source of the story of two daughters by Gauthier used in Rentmeesters. But I believe it true.
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 11, 2012 16:20:34 GMT -6
Thanks, bopeep. Antoine Dubois was still alive up to December of 1814--when he was murdered. Here you can find a transcript of the Jan. 1815 hearing of the accused Indian, which also supplies the dates: tinyurl.com/6ox6kreLet me check on Dubuque and how he fits into the picture. I believe Marguerite was formally married in 1817, as that was the year Father Joseph Dunand stopped at Prairie du Chien and conferred sacraments on a number of persons as the village had no resident priest then. Later: I see that Julien Dubuque was appointed Indian Agent at Prairie du Chien in 1808. I didn't know this previously, but that's understandable as ill health forced Dubuque to give up the position after a mere two months. However, by then Charles Gautier de Verville, the purported father of Marguerite, was already dead. According to Augustin Grignon's "Recollections": Gautier De Verville and his wife went to Prairie du Chien, about 1798, to live with Michael Brisbois; and De Verville died there about 1803, at about the age of sixty-five, his widow survived him several years. This Charles had children by several native women.
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 12, 2012 12:10:14 GMT -6
1830 Census of Michigan Territory: Crawford County Produced by the Kent County Michigan GenWeb ProjectEnumerated by Joseph Brisbois on October 1, 1830. Joseph Rolette 0.3.0.0.65.18.5.0.0.0.1 0.1.2.3 Pierre Lessard 1010011 011001 Michael Brisbois 012221001 0011003 Hyacinth St. Cire 0100012 21201 Paggy [Pelagie] Pizanne 00001 Maria Fashnatch 00001001 001 James Reed 100001 11101 Julien Lariviere 10111 210011 Joseph Deschampt 10002101 01001 Michel Lariviere 10011 00001 Pierre Lariviere 000210001 0001001 Tunis Bell 0000001 000001 Marie Lapointe 000111 101101 Louis Chattelle 0000001 Charles Lapointe 100052 00101 James H. Lockwood 000106 John C. Hayes 020002 21001 Etienne Dyonne 001011 11001 Joseph Brisbois 100001 0001 William M. Read 0100001 01011 Antoine Lachapelle 022011 0011001 Frangois Gallarneaux 02011003 211101 François Labatte 200001 100001 Amable Grignon 11001 01001 Oliver Cherrier 1120001 01001 Jean Bt. Pion 110002 01011 Augustin Rock Sr. [Laroque] 1002001 001001001 Patrick Brenan 0000042 John Marsh 00002 Jean Brunet 0001231 001001 John Simpson 00100021 001001 Pierre Barette 21101 00101 Louis Arriandeaux 010001 10001 Strange Powers [Atrange Poze] 00001 111001 Hubert Lapanse 00001 0001 Charles Tranche 01001 21001 Louison Montvaille 00001 10001 Gilliaume Gauthier 01011001 11121 John Lemery 1100101 00001 Francois Chenevert 0022201 020001 Jn Bte Loyer 0001001 21001 Pierre Lembert [Lambert] 000011 Joseph Rivard 1100011 020001 Andrew Bazin 000301 Joseph Prince 0000001 00001 Benoni Carre [Queret] 00003 Antoine Reed 0000201 Charles St. Antoine 201001 00011 Joseph T. Booth 100002 10001 Francois Provost 0001011 0022001 John Miller 100011 00001 Charles Menard Jr. 10001 0001 Bazel Gagnier 00001 000101 Louis Stram 101200001 0010001 Charles Menard Sr. 1201101 00001001 Lewis Grenards 000001 11001 Denis Courtois 00001001 0001 Jos. M. Street 1223001 102001 Samuel Gilbert 330011 000001 Samuel Griffen 00001 George Colicoeur 122001 000001 Col. W. Morgan 2.6.0.2.96.96.3 4.6.0.0.8.3
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Post by bopeep on Jul 14, 2012 6:49:18 GMT -6
Good morning Rivergal, The Antoine Dubois killed by the Sioux during the War of 1812, was a "young lad", he was Margaret's brother...the Antoine Dubois killed late 1790's was an employee of Dubuque, he likely moved to the area in 1788. He was the father or step-father of Margaret Dubois Rolette. Young Antoine Dubois was a volunteer interpreter to the military. Chief Wapasha was know to have a grudge against the band, as they had already killed his brother. The young man killed was his nephew, who's father was also killed by the same band. Typical French research confuses generations with the same name. Bopeep
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 14, 2012 8:33:20 GMT -6
This is confusing. Julien Dubuque, according to the only source I could find, had a friend named Antoine Dubois and the source also says the former raised Marguerite. It's this one: tinyurl.com/86xk62nAugustin Grignon [to whom our family is related] stated that the Antoine Dubois killed in 1814 was a brother-in-law of Joseph Rolette. As to the Wabasha relationship, this source umbrigade.tripod.com/articles/jean-baptiste_spy.htmlsays in footnote 16 " Rolette (1781-1842) had indirect kinship: the sister of Wapahasha I was married to Antoine Dubois, the brother of Rolette's first wife (WHC 9:297)." More confusion. From "Wisconsin Creoles": "Dubois Family The mother of this family was a sister of the Sioux Indian Chief WauPa Sha [Wahpasha or Wapasha] and was reported to be a slave of Charles de Langlade. She had two daughters by Charles GAUTIER de Verville' Margerite married Joseph Rolette; and Catherine, who married Jean Baptiste Brunette. She later married Jean Baptiste Dubois, son of Pierre Ignace Dubois and Therese Campion. Jean Baptiste drowned in Lake Michigan in 1791 with his bourgeois (employer) Jean Louis Carignon." Bopeep, you seem to be indicating that the father of Antoine Dubois, killed 1814, was another Antoine Dubois. I don't think that can be true. The Sioux Panis of Charles Langlade who had two daughters with Charles Gautier and later married Jean Baptiste DuBois had the children Luke, Antoine and Etienne all born before the death of her husband in 1791. I don't believe the mother of Marguerite Rolette was ever really married to Charles Gautier. [As far as I know, he had only one legal wife.] But I wonder--when was this Marguerite born? Since Gautier and Madeleine Chevalier were married in 1779, I presume he had those children by the native women before that date, although who knows? And how did Joseph Rolette meet Marguerite? Perhaps she was living with her sister, Catherine Brunet. Most girls of the frontier [white or metisse, that is, were married around age 16 or even before. But, in 1807, Marguerite's marriage to Rolette could have been at age 30 or more! Was she a widow? Joseph Rolette would have been 26.
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 14, 2012 10:30:43 GMT -6
Yes, this [Claude] Charles Gautier was a busy guy. If you scroll down to about the middle of this page: www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wioconto/amiot.htmyou can see the names of some of his children by native women of various nations. The lineage on this page ends with the Catherine Brunet who married Basil Larocque.
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Post by bopeep on Jul 14, 2012 20:00:19 GMT -6
Really sorry to confuse you, Rivergal, But Rolette's brother in law was Antoine Dubois Jr. We aren't going into all the references here. I just want to set the record straight. The Antoine Dubois who died in 1814 was the younger brother of Margaret Dubois Rolette. Margaret Dubois was either the sister or the half-sister of Catherine Gauthier. They had a brother Modest, who lived at Prairie du Chien. I figure the Rentmeester's had some information from someone. The Rentmeester's problem was that they didn't have access to the Rolette biography from Tasse'. Maybe Antoine and Jean Baptiste Dubois were brothers....maybe not....but Antoine Dubois married....and I assume we mean country wife....the mother of Margaret Dubois Rolette, and died. The reference to Jean Baptiste and his death in 1791 are just wrong. I think Antoine Jr and Etienne Dubois were brothers. If Luc Dubois was a brother, he likely died during the war of 1812. The relationship of Charles Gauthier to our Sioux slave woman was illicet. I doubt the she was married formally to Dubois or Hurtubise either. Scanlan wrote a biography of Rolette late in his career, he had the same information. Mark Diedrich was close in his book on the Chiefs, but also didn't have the Tasse' information....so perpetuated the wrong story. I have a family related to Jean baptiste LaRock. His son married a Grimard daughter.
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Post by Rivergal on Jul 14, 2012 23:23:56 GMT -6
That's lwhitman, who started this thread. It is her ancestor, Joseph LaRocque, who married Elizabeth Grimard/Gremore. Sorry, but I couldn't find a single other source that says the mother of Marguerite Rolette was married to an Antoine Dubois--except the one I gave above. All the others say the name of her husband/partner was Jean Baptiste. Scanlan wrote a biography of Rolette? You mean Peter Scanlan? I never heard of it. I am very big on references and have to insist that other posters here give them, too, if they dispute some information.
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